joey jojo

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Posts by joey jojo

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  28

  Pre-Nicene christians and the trinity

  by joey jojo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is just a quick summary that might be useful regarding the threads about the trinity currently on the board.. in 325 ce, the nicene council was called by constantine to settle schisms within the christian church.

  the argument about the nature of jesus in relation to god was one of the big problems that needed resolution.

  at first, constantine told the 2 main players, alexander and arius to sort it out between themselves, as he, constantine didnt see it as overly important.

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  joey jojo

  Where did I say it was accepted? I used the terms widespread and debated.
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  28

  Pre-Nicene christians and the trinity

  by joey jojo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is just a quick summary that might be useful regarding the threads about the trinity currently on the board.. in 325 ce, the nicene council was called by constantine to settle schisms within the christian church.

  the argument about the nature of jesus in relation to god was one of the big problems that needed resolution.

  at first, constantine told the 2 main players, alexander and arius to sort it out between themselves, as he, constantine didnt see it as overly important.

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  joey jojo

  This is just a quick summary that might be useful regarding the threads about the trinity currently on the board.

  In 325 ce, the Nicene council was called by Constantine to settle schisms within the christian church. The argument about the nature of Jesus in relation to God was one of the big problems that needed resolution. At first, Constantine told the 2 main players, Alexander and Arius to sort it out between themselves, as he, Constantine didnt see it as overly important. However, it wasnt settled and was starting to cause political problems for Constantine within his empire.

  From the start, there were a lot of people on each side of the debate, some believing Jesus was like God and didnt have a beginning and the other side, believing he was created by God. This wasnt a case of a small, fringe group with a crazy idea, going against the established belief, it had been a debated topic for a long time, over a large part of the Roman Empire.

  The eventual outcome of the 300 people at the council is that the consensus agreed with Alexander and the trinity doctine was made the standard to be followed. Anyone that didnt agree to the new belief was threatened with ex-communication and exile, which is what happened to Arius.

  The question is, where is God in all this decision making? There is no suggestion that any of the opposing camps were ungodly, or werent living their lives as Christians. This was a purely political decision, voted on by men, under the threat of exile and overseen by the Emperor to maintain control of the state religion. The nature of Jesus was a legitimate question then and it is now, which is why it cant be explained easily as either side has pro's and con's to their argument. And really, who gets to dictate the answer? An Emperor that lived around 2000 years ago and has the power to stop thought and debate to this day?

  This next part is pure speculation. Only bits and pieces of the NT have been discovered from after 100 ce. There is nothing from the 1st century and the first complete bible didnt arrive until the early 4th century at best. Thats almost 400 after Jesus died. 400 years is a long time. Perhaps, once the offical doctrines had been adopted from 325 onwards, any surviving early manuscritps were destroyed by the early church to remove as many opposing ideas as possible? This also allows the new testament to be subtly altered to capture the ideas of the newly adopted doctrines. This isnt far-fetched as this is exactly what the JW's do right now, in plain sight.
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  10

  What Is The Purpose Of YORWW Having A Creed & The Forty (40) Basic, Fundamental Truth Requirement?

  by Littleleslie in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  what is the purpose of yorww having a creed & the forty (40) basic, fundamental truth requirement?.

  many people have wondered about the above question and our stand on the forty (40) basic, fundamental truths, and why we make it a requirement for individual jehovah's witnesses to believe these ideas before...before they can join our five (5) discussion boards.well, its called the yorww congregation, isn't it?its a congregation of like believers and persons of like faith.

  (matthew 18:20) so they are supposed to agree on their beliefs, exactly as first century christians agreed upon their beliefs.

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  joey jojo

  Just here trying to make $$$
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  31

  End within 2 years (again)

  by road to nowhere in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  an old elder friend from out of town stopped to see my ailing wife.

  more than the locals do.

  he said elder school emphasized 2 years and the existing body will be the leaders through persecution and tribulation.

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  joey jojo

  Vidiot
  I’d’ve thought Letto the Clown’d be the next one shown the door.

  I thought the same thing but obviously he knows how to play the game.
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  51

  The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity

  by Longlivetherenegades in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  those who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .

  1. father .

  2. jesus .

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  joey jojo

  Anony Mous
  there is a deeper core truth to the trinity that you can’t just reject from modern society without removing the underpinnings of the renaissance and by that modern science etc. which is why it was independently discovered in many religions as others here point out, it is a pattern that keeps appearing in India, in China, in Africa

  Its a little different everywhere around the world. It could equally be said that christianity mimics the hindu idea of creator/ preserver / destroyer.

  Birth / death/ rebirth is a topic that is not unique to christianity.

  Hindu's, muslims, sikhs, jews, buddhists and other groups dont believe in a trinity. That covers a big part of the worlds population.

  Much like mustard, I think it is an exhausting subject that comes down to whether you believe it or not, like everything else to do with religion. You said it yourself - its not provable. Religion, particularly catholics, have done all they can to retard science throughout the centuries. Shouldnt they welcome knowledge? Whats the point of persecuting scientists like copernicus and galileo that told the truth? Why does the wt censor anyone that disagrees? Its all about control and power - not truth.

  This is another argument over a stupid religious point that means a lot to some people, not because of any evidence but simply because they think they are right.
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  51

  The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity

  by Longlivetherenegades in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  those who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .

  1. father .

  2. jesus .

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  joey jojo

  This debate is a good demonstration of how blind faith works.

  The church (not god), arrives at a conclusion and it is set in stone. From this point forward, those that believe it are blessed and those that question it are called heretics and suffer. This continues for centuries.

  Unlike normal organisations, like businesses that have to adapt and justify their existence, the church expects all those around to change and adapt, whether they agree or not.

  The believers like it this way because they don't like change. They want something solid, even if it's demonstrably wrong. They would rather die in unquestioning ignorance than explore their own beliefs because to do so would take them to places they are uncomfortable. They don't want to experience how it feels to have their faith shaken because it scares them. It is far easier to have someone else do the thinking for you
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  51

  The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity

  by Longlivetherenegades in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  those who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .

  1. father .

  2. jesus .

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  joey jojo

  The scriptures attached to your chart prove nothing. No one reading them objectively would form the conclusion that god = 3 seperate beings.
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  51

  The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity

  by Longlivetherenegades in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  those who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .

  1. father .

  2. jesus .

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  joey jojo

  The scriptures are cited in the chart. Which verses do you find objectionable?

  The trinity doctrine is often described as being 'mysterious' or 'paradoxical' by those that believe it and base their eternal soul on it being true or not.

  The concept of what god/ jesus is and their relationship should be easy to grasp and not require mental gymnastics. Scriptures clearly make distinctions between god and jesus, and most never mention 'the holy spirit'.

  Your belief is based on faith - not reason. You know that you are not your parent, why are you trying to convince others that god is his own parent?
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  51

  The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity

  by Longlivetherenegades in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  those who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .

  1. father .

  2. jesus .

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  joey jojo

  The chart is only needed to present the biblical view.

  If by biblical you mean the 'biased view of a particular religious group' - then ok.
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  51

  The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity

  by Longlivetherenegades in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  those who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .

  1. father .

  2. jesus .

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  joey jojo

  
  Sea Breeze
  Apparently he can in this case. My chart above perfectly expalins it.

  A child cannot be their own parent.

  I dont believe a basic, fundamental belief that a child should be able to understand should require a chart- do you?

  Also, no chart exists that can prove a child can be their own parent.